Think 3rd gear is going or gone - how long can i keep driving as is?

With this stupid global lockdown still going on, I think my wagon is telling me it's not happy about sitting idle so much.
symptoms:
current mileage 156K
had transmission serviced a few years ago - not sure what the mileage was... maybe in the 130s? mechanic said it looked pretty bad and if i didn't do it it would've ended up causing problems
currently - fluid level is fine, color is pink/clean

so 1st and 2nd is good, seems to shift into 4th at speed, but getting the engine rev in 3rd, 'me no wanna go faster' when i try accelerating around 35-45 till it kicks down into 2nd
also, if i drive conservatively (hard to do) it really doesn't like it as it gently goes from 2nd to ... "what? faster? not right now, i'm on break"
thank god these cars coast with less drag than anything i've driven - when my 95 BRS transmission went out i coasted off the main road to a parking space about 3/4 a mile away - and that was WITH braking here and there.

SOOO, My questions are, does anyone have experience with this issue AND living with it for any length of time?

Should I be expecting a complete failure soon or will I likely just be missing 3rd for a bit...

Should I avoid trying to drive on interstates and only around town (keep it under 60)?

thanks...
I wouldn't be bothering to ask such stupid questions if my 'armageddon wagon' could be replaced - rent and food etc is currently eating last of reserves since as many have experienced, Florida UE for self employed folks is a joke ... help ain't comin' boy...

What year is your car?

You will not be driving it much longer. I would make sure your AAA is paid up. The symptom is common with the 4L60, and 4L60E. 

The 94-96 transmissions are year specific. If you find one in a junk yard, they cost about $150 + your old one. The yards guarantee about 30 days, and sometimes you can buy extended coverage. On that note, there aren't any 94-96 B or D bodies in the yards right now. If you have a 91-93, there is a wagon being parted out privately locally. and has a trans that worked when parked. There are also a couple 91-93s in Bradenton, and Daytona.

If you are into installing it yourself, you can get a rebuilt unit for under $1000 in Jacksonville. 

You could also get a rebuild kit from Rock Auto, and rebuild it yourself.

It's a 96

do you mean a 94 buick transmission wouldn't work in a 95 etc? I thought the 4L60E was widely used in a variety of models and years - wouldn't they be interchangable to any model car/truck that uses it or are there little nuances to each make and model?

I watched some videos a while back on rebuilding these, and i think it's more than I would want to attempt. Bit of a moot issue as I don't have a place to work anyway.

There are some subtle differences in the 94, 5, and 6 transmissions. The 96 is the most different, because the OBDII change. The VSS, and tailshaft housing is also different in the 96. Sorry I don't have better news. Just Rite Transmissions in Clearwater is a good local rebuilder. (727) 330-1056 They can make upgrades to fit your needs.

forgot about the ODBii thing - that would be an obvious difference.
I don't know at this point. Very discouraging. My windshield cracked about a year ago - couldn't get a replacement because of the typical albeit minor rust issues around where it meets at the roofline. Last year went down to Tubby's - since owner used to have a 94, figured they do good work and would do things right.. but the estimate for just the bodywork on the roof area alone was a dealbreaker.
At this point I think it may be time to call it a day. What a crap time to be looking at trying to sell it/part if out.

I know Len at Tubby's, I helped him with some things on his 94. He is a nice guy, but he has a customizing shop, and due to that, also expensive. They tend to take forever to get anything done, and the estimate is usually low, which means he will ask for more money as it goes along. My friend works at a customizing shop I used a to fix my car, and paint it. A 2-3 month job took 15 months, and cost $1500 more than originally estimated. I had to almost ride their backs to get anything done. They also have a goon working there who cost over $100 in parts by breaking perfectly good parts.

I would check with a collision repair shop for the body repair at the windshield. I am going to go to Caliber Collision, new fairly one on Ulmerton Rd. I interviewed the manager, and he seems to know his stuff, but he does not do the work himself. I also have some specialty work to be done, so I do not know the price yet. Your insurance may even replace the glass, if you have collision/comprehensive insurance. I think collision shops tend to be a little faster to return your car. Collision shops do not take a % up front, then bill you at the end, they get paid when the car is done. The shop I used only takes cash. You can use your credit card at a collision shop. A "discount" shop like Macco will usually cost as much, or more as a better shop when body repair is necessary. What is nice about the use of a credit card, is that you have recourse through your cc company if they did not do it right.

I went to Safelite to get my front glass replaced about 8 years ago, and they found rust under the glass. They do not do body repair, so I ended up driving to a body shop without the front glass. You now have one of my horror stories. That turned into a multi faceted fiasco, when after the work was done, the glass guy he used did not put enough urethane on it, and the glass started to slip to where the VIN was covered by the black perimeter of the glass. I had to have the glass redone.

horror stories indeed!
After looking around a bit last month about por 15 products I saw that it was possible - if i was patient enough - to use a variety of their products to patch the rust issues around my glass on my own - assuming the holes weren't too big to use that method, but now with the transmission acting up I have to wonder if it's really worth the $$ to me. Need one of those shows like pimp my ride or loose to turn a turd into something golden

I would like it if the Garage Squad came by and gave me a boost. The cost of the trans should be still within the scope of value, and if you are going to do the body work around the window, the cost of materials is not all that high. To replace the car with the mileage would be upwards of $3K. If you fix the window, and have the trans rebuilt, you are still spending less than trying to replace the car, especially with it being a 96. The cost of a trans, and the windshield is about $1300. Most car payments are $300+ per month, so that is a little over 4 payments. If the trans shop, and/or the body shop/glass guy will take paypal, and you have paypal credit, you can pay it off over 6 months with no interest. They would have to invoice you.

https://ocala.craigslist.org/ptd/d/4l60e-700r4-suv-tow-z71-hot-rod-4x4/7112102729.html

Have a glass place pull the windshield. Fix the rust. Have them come back and install the new one.

How bad is the rust around windshield? Got any pictures?

The trans place in Jacksonville is not any cheaper than getting it done locally. You can get the same upgrades, and no shipping.

good food for thought guys - thank you for input so far

regarding pictures - i'll take some tomorrow to post - should give an idea, but years ago when it was very minor i took outa dremel and burned off the worst of it - primered and filled with that metal silver colored caulk stuff and painted over it. in some areas, it has worked surprisingly well - like on a spot around the vista window - hasn't changed in 5 years. obviously the front of roof was different story - probably have hole or two the size of a dime underneath it all... maybe bigger.

That is common with these cars. The urethane sometimes has voids, and it holds pools of water along the roof line. A good welder can fill holes. I had one right in the middle of mine. I am not sure what the body guy did, but it stopped the rust. I had a hole under the vista glass on the rear left corner. I had to replace the glass, so while I had it off, I made a patch with some scrap carbon fiber cloth I had laying around. I have not seen any issues with it since. 

Right now I am having speaker issues. I have two good radios, and no sound. I may rewire them. It may also be my crossover networks. This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts. I also have an old issue that came back to bite me...The HVAC fan motor fuse gets hot, and the fuse distorts, as well as melting the fuse block. I am rewiring the fan with an individual fuse close to the fan. I had to almost the entire dash support out of the car. I am having as much fun as you are.

electical gremlins are the worse. I decided to upgrade the factory radio (tape deck broken) and installed an inexpensive touch screen with rear view camera option.

Didn't buy the crutchfield adapter plug to make an easy connection like i should've, but it did allow me to customize the wiring - like not connecting the power antenna - since my antenna is broken, and wiring it so i can use the dvd at any time - not that i do.
Plus i wanted to be able to turn on the rear camera while driving rather than tied into reverse (i don't have a tow bar, but if the cargo area is filled, i figured it would make a digital rear view while driving.

I thought I had wired into the rear vanity light, but apprently i had done it wrong and killed the right and top brake lights instead, so i disconnected it for a while and put things back like they were so I had full working brake lights until i was motivated to fix it right.

Apparently I made things worse. i didn't have the wires properly secured on the back of the stereo unit so now the dvd won't play even in park as it thinks i am always in D. but what's worse is i wired the rear camera incorrectly and now it works whenever I want EXCEPT when the car is in Reverse. And like a moron, I already soldered and heat shrank the connection before checking my work.

We must be brothers of a different mother. My radio is an upgrade, and about 2 weeks ago it stopped making sound. It still works (checked it today), but I have no sound in the car. I am going to run new speaker wires, and maybe put new crossovers in the front. The replacement rear speaker have built in corssovers with coaxial tweeters. It is bizarre that the whole system is not working...happened at once. I must buy enough speaker wire in different paired colors for each channel. PITA.

Fred Kiehl wrote:

The trans place in Jacksonville is not any cheaper than getting it done locally. You can get the same upgrades, and no shipping.

Just posting an option and showing that getting these things rebuilt doesn't cost that much. I'll leave the advice to you from now on.

Serendipity96 wrote:

good food for thought guys - thank you for input so far

regarding pictures - i'll take some tomorrow to post - should give an idea, but years ago when it was very minor i took outa dremel and burned off the worst of it - primered and filled with that metal silver colored caulk stuff and painted over it. in some areas, it has worked surprisingly well - like on a spot around the vista window - hasn't changed in 5 years.  obviously the front of roof was different story - probably have hole or two the size of a dime underneath it all... maybe bigger.

Holes present a different problem and are naturally more expensive to repair properly. I had a spot above my windshield when I bought it but dealt with it quickly.

Later I found this on the driver side.



I wire wheeled it all and covered it with a rust converter before priming and painting. Put new sealer in it as well. I have the same thing showing up on the passenger side and need to take care of it. See the issue on lots of the Caprice Wagons because of that damn rack and the terrible sealers GM used on these cars.

yup - holes suck.

ok, here's the pics of the roof.
4 spots total - 2nd pic shows driver's side - which is the worst spot as i recall. - think it was already starting back when i bought the car 7 years ago.

I had looked around for DIY jobs on fixing the rusty roof bits - this is one site that made me think it might be doable myself (assuming the patience to do it right) - depending on how bad it really is underneath

http://www.spdweb.net/index.php/knowledge-base/68-modification-and-repair/188-repairing-rust-around-a-windshield

then using products like this- https://amzn.to/3bXCs8U
along with the mesh screen and maybe? https://amzn.to/2W1t8LH

You ave some serious rust along the window  You may have to cut that portion from another car, and get it welded on. I would consider taking it to a body shop with the donor part. Cut the whole top about 3-4 inches deep. They can pick what pieces they need. I did not think it was that extensive. It may be a little more than I thought. The car may still be worth the money spent. An insurance company will usually go 80% of the value. Any sedan or wagon will fit including the FW D body.

Looks a little funky but not too large. Curious to see it cleaned up and that rubber moulding out of the way. Of course I know you aren't keen on ripping it apart so don't do it just for pics for a random person on a message board, lol.

You are in clearwater and that isn't too far from me. I have repaired some pretty nasty stuff with a grinder and Bondo "Hair" in the past, lol. Not professional or "correct" by any means but it cleaned up my car and stopped water from coming in. It was also much cheaper than any correct fix and allowed my wagon to continue doing its job as transportation.

On the flip side, if you want to repair it with metal, reach out to this person...

https://lakeland.craigslist.org/pts/d/mulberry-95-caprice-wagon/7112463211.html

Perhaps they have good metal around that glass.

damn - that wagon's roof looks fine ... compared to mine.

Funny thing - i STILL have zero water intrusion from windshield.

It's just been horrible for years with the delaminating. Wouldn't even drive at night in the rain as the inability to see out the window clearly coupled with the notoriously bad headlights on these things (i even bought brand new assemblies after trying a bunch of other things - no noticeable difference)

Fred - you've lost me there with the cutting and welding another car's metal to it... that is way more than i am comfortable to attempt (and i mean having someone else take that on) but i think you are right - when i bought the car there was a huge 12-16" area more toward the driver side of the roof between all the glass that i have a feeling was worked on before me - the entire roof area could be one giant mess of surface/deep rust - good thing i don't live in california anymore where there's LOTS of hills to roll upside-down.

I'm thinking someone with more money and resources than me may have to take this on - or more likely end up parting it out and using the engine in a hotrod like my 95 sedan ended up becoming - guy who bought that said he was building a late 50s or early 60s chevy pu hotrod

94Woody wrote:

Looks a little funky but not too large. Curious to see it cleaned up and that rubber moulding out of the way. Of course I know you aren't keen on ripping it apart so don't do it just for pics for a random person on a message board, lol.

You are in clearwater and that isn't too far from me. I have repaired some pretty nasty stuff with a grinder and Bondo "Hair" in the past, lol. Not professional or "correct" by any means but it cleaned up my car and stopped water from coming in. It was also much cheaper than any correct fix and allowed my wagon to continue doing its job as transportation.

On the flip side, if you want to repair it with metal, reach out to this person...

https://lakeland.craigslist.org/pts/d/mulberry-95-caprice-wagon/7112463211.html

Perhaps they have good metal around that glass.

You could have the trans fixed, and at a later date the roof/window issue. Since it is not allowing water to enter, it is good for a while.

had to go out today a few times - now realize the transmission was acting up a while ago but i didn't know what was going on with 3rd. now that it's mostly gone, it takes some adjusting driving down east bay from 1---2---4/OD.
I never noticed how little power there is in 4th compared to 3rd when it comes to acceleration in the 40-60mph range.

Fred is correct when he says that unless you have $3k to buy another decent car with, you're better off fixing yours.

As to the trans, the 3-4 clutchpack failure is an isolated failure, so it won't take out anything more than 3rd and 4th (the 3-4 cluthcpack and the 2-4 band are both required to achieve 4th). The fact that you can sneak it into 4th is a lucky anomaly. And no, it won't heal. Just baby it as you get close to shifting into 3rd.

Outside of the windshield and roof rust, if the rest of the car's not in terrible shape, if you have the transmission rebuilt/replaced (KEEP THE RECEIPT) and drive it a bit, you can always sell it for some money and recover that. If the car needs a lot of work or has not been maintained, then you either need to be prepared to put that into the car and then drive it enough to amortize the parts, or sell it now. But unless you can find another vehicle that's been taken care of and can afford that price, just stick with what you have.

all good advice

yes - i experimented yesterday - if i put the gear into 2nd, then it would stay there at speed. but leaving it in 4th, when i would get up to speed, say 50ish, and let off the gas, the RPMs would drop back down to 800, but to maintain 50-55 the rpms have to be around 2800-3000 instead of 1700-1800 (using the built in computer to give me rpm data)

so i guess i currently am experiencing a 'lucky anomaly' but i won't be doing any long distance or interstate driving until this is resolved.

The car has been good to me and i was only stranded once in 7 years (at home, no less) because of a bad starter (napa is crap) Car has never had a single code... weird cause my gas mileage imo sucks

of course there are plenty of little and not so little things it could use-

power steering has a slow leak somewhere - pump itself was replaced around 120
parking brake release handle has been missing since purchase (hello vice grips)
hood cable broke at handle so currently have to open it from outside
gauge cluster lights out (all bulbs replaced - wasn't the issue - so rather hard to see at night)
heater core - what heater core? never worked since got car, but it's florida, so...
headliner shot - but after talking to Fred Lesinski, i thought that'd be better done when/if the roof rack area was restored since those fasteners holding the tracks down can't be kept from spinning when headliner is in the way
noisy pinion (ever since i got it at 78K)

top of the line 3M nanoceramic window tint... but i thought i could do it myself... aint pretty (note to self, never try doing window tint again)

replaced the annoying nylon bushings in the front windows but rear windows still need to be done - i never use them much - still go up and down but have to hold it level to make sure they go all the way up.
front shocks were replaced with SS heavy dutys and rears with bilsteins
upper arms and all ball joints done about 20K ago
new O2 sensors etc etc
pretty much every major component under the hood has been replaced since passing the 100K mark at some point - except for the alternator.

Rear drums need to be done most likely - i've never done them. Fronts have been replaced twice, including rotors
michelins still have plenty of tread
i've kept records and every receipt for every part/job i've had done since the beginning

None of those problems you describe are fatal. I'd just keep it. These are useful cars - they can do a lot.

Rear drums are easy, and wheel cylinders are dirt cheap. Put a new hardware kit on while you're in there, that's cheap too. And buy some drum brake tools - makes the job super easy, or find a used set cheap.

Gas mileage - do you have any broken exhaust manifold bolts? The stock injectors are at end of life; I'm partway through an alternate injector solution for these cars and should have something available mid-summer.

Heater core is probably due to the '96 dexcool/stopleak chemistry problem. Just have to replace it when money/time allows, but just bypass it for now.

disc brake jobs never intimidated me, but i've actually never done drums - watched others a few times -including a mechanic do a set - i'll never forget, he was like, ok step back a bit, this is not good to breathe... took an air hose and blew out all that nasty brake dust everywhere - and he had no mask on... not too bright imo

i had watched a chrisfix video on doing your own coolant flush/heater core flush, etc. he makes things look so easy... so i decided to mimic that and did it myself and video taped it - haven't posted it yet on my youtube channel - lots of editing to be done.
That is when i should've bypassed the heater core.

and yes - i always forget about the manifold bolt issue - if i remember, last time i looked into that it was the driver's side that had one or two loose or stripped, so i think that is likely part of the gas mileage problem / running too rich - fuel systems aren't my forte.
and of course when you experiment with different driving habits and see little difference, the heavy foot says, ain't savin' much so might as well enjoy the powuhhhh
seen as little as 11ish with only around town to best i've EVER seen was a little over 20 or 21 all highway
probably one of the most annoying things when i'd read so many others with rm or fleetwoods or caprices that would easily see mid 20s+ on the hwy - even wagons

Drum brakes are simple. One side at a time so you can use one for reference while assembling the other.

Just remember the small shoe goes to the front on both sides.

i've decided to list my wagon for sale.

I know it's worth a lot more in parts, but i'd rather try to sell it whole, along with other extra RM parts i have.

If anyone is interested, pm me - car is in clearwater, florida.

I'll look into posting a detailed ad on here, will also be posting on CL and FB this week