Project Big Stick Wagon

New member, Figured i'd share my project with you all.

had a plan, and of course nothing ever goes to plan.

It all started with an Engine. Bought an LQ4 from a 2005 GM Truck. Plan was to freshen up the engine a bit with a couple upgrades, then once done find something to slap it in.



well, Before i even had a chance to tear into the engine, i got sent a link to a car. I knew i wanted a wagon but just thought i'd buy one later. Bought the engine in June 2018, Figuring i would not need a car for almost a year. Then i came across this. Not in mint shape, but it was pretty solid still and i got it for only $500

Both sat for a minute while i liquidated another project i had lost interest in.  Selling off one allowed me the space and funds for the wagon.

Around November i finally got to work.  Engine teardown time!!   Pretty clean on the inside for a 150k truck engine


Traded my stock 317 casting heads for some 862's.  They have a smaller chamber (61.5 vs 71cc) to bump up compression.  they however were not nearly as clean as what i had removed.




Then, reassembly!   Internals all are untouched,  but got a fresh new custom spec'd cam and cleaned up a bit.



Would post a run vid of the first fire up on a buddies run stand......but no links for 7 days.

Now, Finally start to work on it in the car. Then, something else that i was not looking for came up.


Picked up a T56 from a 2000 camaro for the swap. Was just gonna go auto, but this was a deal too good to pass on. so now, bunches more work for me!



Had to take off the front bumper and header panel to get enough reach with the hoist to put engine and trans in the car together for test fitment.

Engine Mounts were a bit of a pain. I was unaware of the KDS mounts a the time, So i ended up making my own frame side mounts and used generic engine side swap plates and solid mounts



Where it will reside

Trans was hitting the tunnel so i knew i had to enlarge it a bit, and floorboards were rusty and in need of replacement as well. Two birds/One stone scenario.....and a plasma cutter



have my trans X-member all measured up and figured out, and the win of the night goes to the driveshaft, as it is a perfect fit and won't need to be cut down or lengthened.



This is up to date as of right now, as i just cut out the floorboards last night. Hoping to have the car running by late april, and fully on the road by June.

Clear Image Automotive sells a crossmember too - but obviously you're a super DIYer. Nice work.


That's the best part about the T56. Same length as a 700R4. No need for a new driveshaft.


What do you plan on running for rear gears? Might want to invest in a better shaft after that bit.

RedandBlack wrote:

Clear Image Automotive sells a crossmember too - but obviously you're a super DIYer. Nice work.


That's the best part about the T56. Same length as a 700R4. No need for a new driveshaft.


What do you plan on running for rear gears? Might want to invest in a better shaft after that bit.

Yeah, "super DIYer" is pretty accurate. I Build everything i can. I already own my time, Money can be a bit harder to come by at times so if i can build it, i usually do.

Trying to figure out Tires and wheels, so i know why my tire height will be. Looking like either 3.73 or maybe 3.90 gears, just in the stock 10 bolt for now, Might upgrade to a different rear later but i think the 8.5 should handle the power decently well, especially considering its not a drag car.

As for a driveshaft, might build one of those as well if the stocker turns out it does not like the power. I was kinda hoping i needed to modify my stock shaft, as it usually makes for a decent tech write up and most people don't realize how simple it is to do driveshafts themselves even without big expensive tools like a Lathe.

It actually looks like the PO of the wagon modified the shaft as it does not look like a factory weld at the slip yoke end.

You'll probably want more gear. Most people do at least 4.10s with T56s.

For reference, my 4.56s and a 28" tire turns the same RPM in 6th as a 700R4 with 3.73s.

Really? I had two shafts built for mine. Wish I knew how to do that lol Spent a LOT of money on that annoying part of the swap.....

I was doing the math with a bit shorter tire, 26" tire i think which is why i was looking at the bit taller gear.

3.73 would put me around 1800 cruising at 75 MPH on the highway.

this is the main reason want to go ahead and nail my tire/wheel combo early in the build so i don't have to end up doing the rear gears twice.

also...what clutch are you running? i already bought an LS7 clutch, but just curios as to what you have with your setup.

Thanks.

Spec stage 1. Supposedly good to 600 ft/lbs. I was going to do an LS7 cluctch too but got this used from a friend for cheap who was parting out his build to go TT.

Great new thread!

Damn bro! you are not playing around!

I'll throw in my 2cents. Welcome BTW. I have a T56 behind a stock LT1 and the 4.10s are nice
Cruising at 70-80 I think it's only 3-400 hundred higher then the Auto with a 2.93 rear. Before I got a tach installed some stupid girl totaled the car so I can't give exact numbers.

Tim Swink on here had a spreadsheet for gear ratios and RPM at speeds....I'm sure he'd share if you ask him nicely...

4.10s. I ran the shorter tire (295 35 18) for 15 years with the 4.10s. Don't do 3.anything. 4.10 or 4.56.

JeffY wrote:

Damn bro! you are not playing around!

Go big or go home. Figured do its always cheaper to do it right once, than it is do it twice any time.

Sprocket wrote:

I'll throw in my 2cents.   Welcome BTW.   I have a T56 behind a stock LT1 and the 4.10s are nice
Cruising at 70-80 I think it's only 3-400 hundred higher then the Auto with a 2.93 rear.  Before I got a tach installed some stupid girl totaled the car so I can't give exact numbers.

Tim Swink on here had a spreadsheet for gear ratios and RPM at speeds....I'm sure he'd share if you ask him nicely...

jayoldschool wrote:

4.10s.  I ran the shorter tire (295 35 18) for 15 years with the 4.10s.  Don't do 3.anything.  4.10 or 4.56.

Well after much research, googling, and deep thought i have come up with running a 255/45-18 tire all around which is right at a 27" tall tire, with plenty of good tire options as it seems to be a popular size. one an 18x9-ish wheel.

and based on my math, a 4.10 puts me right at 1900 at 75MPH. seems like a reasonable enough RPM to me. I figure you guys definitely have more experience with it than myself so i am willing to listen.

will be going with 4.10's it looks like. I think 4.56 is a bit deep for my uses though. Thank you guys for the first hand input

only a bit of work got done last night, mainly due to its time consuming nature. and of course, my "finished" pics did not save on my phone for some odd reason.

Made a new crossmember, Version 1.0, for the trans. I know it is not the final iteration, as it will most likely have to be modified for exhaust clearance, however that is abridge i will cross when i get to it. Should be a pretty simple modification.


Before i could install it however, had to repair a bit of frame rot


But it was patched easy enough with some scrap material i had laying around. Holes were drilled and X-member was mounted up so the drivetrain is officially installed in the car, on its own weight.



I do need to make spacers to go inside the frame to keep from crushing it when tightening the bolts for the crossmember, as well as modify it for exhaust when it comes to that point, but for now it is plenty to support the static load of the drivetrain, Dynamic loading is still a ways offs. No finished pics, but the frame was indeed patched and bolts put in the crossmember.

Next step will be trans tunnel and floor boards. Measured up last night so i can get an idea of how much material i will be needing for the repairs. Should be interesting...never done body work to any extent.

grabbed a few pics of the finished frame repair and mounted trans X-member


I plan on going with buckets that i pulled from another project, but test fit the stock bench back in with the Stick shift just to see if it would clear. It does..kinda.


Had a slow day, waiting on parts for get into much else on the wagon so did some piddly stuff. Moved the battery tray to the drivers side, and discovered a window did not work. So pulled the door panel to see a first. I have seen tracks break, gears strip, and other issues with the track. But the window came unglued from track. So, glued it back in, lets hope it stick!


Then....picked up some sheetmetal. Made an attempt to roll a conical trans tunnel out of some 18ga cold rolled sheet. i'll see if i measured correctly tomorrow when i test fit it, but it came out decent for my first go at it.

well...it fit as well as can be expected for a first shot at it.



Overall a decent fit.


Got the pans cut out in rough shape, once i get the tunnel fully welded in, i can then do a final trim on the pans. Going to attempt to bead roll them, a first for me as well. Looking decent for a guy that has no idea the proper way to go about this.

Love it! That is pretty cool how you can make your own stuff....I wish I was able to weld and make panels.

Chris

brokecello wrote:

Love it!  That is pretty cool how you can make your own stuff....I wish I was able to weld and make panels.  

 Chris

thanks, I really enjoy Fab work. the build is almost as much fun as enjoying it afterwards for me.


It is, IMO, a skill anyone can learn. yes, some pick it up easier and quicker than others, but welding and fabrication can be done by anyone. I am 75% self taught, the other 25% just came from watching others and getting tidbits of advice. But i was never "Shown" how to do hardly any welding or metal work, just picked up the tools and figured it out. And fabrication is a big part of my Job, so I often get paid to learn new skills and processes and have free reign of the equipment after hours for personal use as well.

I suggest anyone wanting to learn to do so. take a class, if that is not an option, find a local car club and many times guys in them are willing to help others learn and pick up new skills. Buy a cheap welder and some scrap metal and start sticking it together. I'd offer to help anyone close to me learn if they wanted.

sometimes you just gotta do the little things, that are not needed yet but give you a bit of a sense of accomplishment. Shift knob, repurposed from another project, Made it about 5 years ago. pulled it out and modified it to go on the T56.

Nice project. The shift knob is unique.

Thanks. The shift knob was my Wifes idea. I wanted to make something unique and she came up with the revolver cylinder. I made a small piston for the 4wd shifter as well, since this was originally on my K5 blazer, it is now on my truck.

well after a longer than intended Hiatus from working on the car, finally getting back on it Tomorrow after nearly 3 weeks.

Had an opportunity come my way that was too good to pass up, but now back to my regularly scheduled work on the Wagon every Wednesday and Saturday.

Got to work swapping pedals yesterday.

Took 6 pedals to get the job done. 3 on the left from the camaro, the DBW pedal from a 2003-ish Yukon, and the 2 factory pedals from the Wagon.


To start, had to cut the clutch pedal bracket off of the F-body assembly


The stock Impala stuff was removed, and modified a bit to accept the larger bolt from the F-body and i welded the stock F-body clutch portion to the stock Wagon mounting bracket


Then, due to space i had to use the smaller Camaro brake pedal and it had the pin connection for the MC on the wrong side. Simple fix, ground it off, pressed it out, swapped sides and welded it all back in


I meant to get progress pics of doing the whole Throttle pedal, but got caught up in working on it and before i knew it, it was installed in the car and i had no pics. But i cut the DBW pedal arm off of the bracket leaving the pivot and electronics intact. Then, the Stock wagon pedal and its round bracket were bent to match the DBW bracket and welded to it. Then the DBW pedal was simply drilled to match the pattern of the mount on the car and bolted up nicely.

Once the pedals were all bolted up, the clutch bottomed out on the floor pans well before it made it thoughts its full travel. So i had to modify the pedal and it removed a pretty large chunk of it. Everything above the silver line was scrapped


So it had to be ground to fit on the front of the pedal, then welded back in to give it some strength back


If i had TIG in the Garage i would have done that and left it just as a little note to the fact it is custom, But MIG left a bulge of a weld that i ground off to make it look better, and it will be painted and most will be none the wiser it was modified.


Now, 3 pedals where 2 used to be! about 80% done. still have some welding to do as it is all just tacked in place before final fitment. Then it will all be painted, and i have to mount my Master cylinder for the clutch as well. In all, it was less of a headache than i anticipated to get them in. I planned on 2 full days for this part, and it is only a couple hours from being done in one day.

Here is a finished pic of my Throttle pedal. Quick and simple mount. Tried to not overthink it all and just go what what seemed to be the simple solution to the pedals.


Next up, Headers. Didn't want to dive too deep into the floorboards so installed my passenger header. Driver side, as you can see from previous pics was already in. on small hammer ding in the #3 primary and it slide right in place without much fuss.


Passenger side however created a much larger problem. I am use 4th gen F-body headers. Cheapest once you can buy on ebay. not my original intention, but a buddy had them and i picked them up off him. I always planned on 4th gen headers, but was going to buy middle of the road ones, not the cheapies. Should have done it, but they are in now, so i'll run with these.
had to clearance one primary for the bellhousing, and another primary for the LCA mount. then they still would not bolt up.

As you can see from the heat marks on the top near the flange, i had to bend every tube and actually rotate the flange a few degrees to get it to line up. It was most likely a manufacturing defect/out of tolerance but it was 5-10 degrees out of line from bolting up to the head, wanted to swing the header out into the frame rail of he car.

You don't want to know how i ended up bending the whole flange at once, just know it worked surprisingly well and now is all in the car with no clearance issues!.

Was not able to get my pan's bead rolled like i had hoped last week, so moved on to other things for this week. Pulled engine and trans since placement is pretty final, so i can fully weld in my mounts, as well as install my new clutch, clean it all up and paint, just get it all ready in general for it to go in for the final time.

Love the T56 for ease of install. So light, pulled it alone with just a floor jack for support. Never could do that with any auto, or old school iron case manual

Pulled the car out of the garage. Interesting with no floorpans, no brake pedal, no seat, and no bumper to aid in pushing it back in.

A very cool project!

not much again. Floorpans are being a big hold up right now. Hoping to bead roll them saturday so i can start install and work can pick up again

Just a little cleanup and added some color.




Then started to layout what i wanted to bead roll in my pans. needs a bit more on the rear part for structure but not sure how i want to do that.

Its a part that no one will see, which makes it all the better to practice on with some designs.

Made an attempt of using a bead roller for the first time. No instruction, just winged it. here is the first panel, Passenger floor board.


Learning curve shows, as the driver pan is a bit better, more consistent.


Next up, the welding started. Cleaned up with a grinder to get down to bare metal and MIG welded the tunnel in. Light massaging was required to close up some gaps to make them weldable as the tunnel was a semi circle but the car was a bit oddly shaped.


Next up, the pans themselves go in.


Finish up the last spots with some smaller patch panels. Nearly fully welded in at this point. Did not 100% weld, just stitched every few inches, the rest was covered with seam sealer. Didn't want to put all the heat in it to fully weld and cause any major warps. that, and sheet is a pain to weld, though in general this wasn't all that bad.


Little Brown primer over the seam sealer and calling it done!


tunnel vision. plenty of room for everything now.


Wednesday i need to figure out where to mount the clutch MC, not sure how the best way to go about that just yet, but i'l figure it out. Pedals go in for the final time, then reinstall the drivetrain. for the final time as well.

after that, should be pretty well all downhill from that point. Just installing parts pretty well with fuel system, wiring, cooling system and rear gears. Main fab left will be seats, and exhaust.

Goal now is Indy leg of the power tour this year, June 12th have a 100% operational car.

nice work!

We are doing the full Power Tour this year in the wife's 454SS.

rcktpwrd wrote:

nice work!

We are doing the full Power Tour this year in the wife's 454SS.

Thanks!


we are hoping to long haul the tour next year. If all works out, have a group of about 10 or so going to do it with us in a wide array of cars.

Wagon Wednesday!

Tonight was small things that make a big difference.

New clutch Master had a cheesy pushrod. Old one had a nice, adjustable rod end. Not sure if it was stock or aftermarket. swapped out pushrods was first on the list today. I want that adjustability.



Then, had to mount it. Bit of test fitting and a Fender brace was right in the way. angle grinder said it was not in the way for long


Had to get a bit creative to drill the mounting holes as access is rather limited.


Then mounted it up, luckily using an existing hole. feel pretty good about it, but we will have to wait and see if it works as well as i hope




Interior is coming back together.



and then....cut a big hole in my fresh floors. Hopefully i measured right the first time.



Now, another hiatus in work. Be back at it in 2 week. At that point, drivetrain will be going in for teh final time. Then the simpler stuff can be handled. Cooling, fueling, wiring. Exhaust is the biggest project left i think.

The eagle has landed! Drivetrain back in for last time. Hoping to hear it run in about 2 weeks!



had to cut a larger hole for the shifter. My original hole was in the correct location, but needed to be able to install/remove the whole shifter assembly from the top side. it will be covered with a bolt on plate before i am finished.

Today did not go as planned. was hoping for the first fire up in the car today.

Started off by changing Injectors. Replacing the stock 26lb injectors with some 36lb flex fuel injectors. Pulled old injectors out, they looked terrible. go to install new injectors and they do not seem to fit. as i pulled them out the small plastic caps on the end dislodged themselves and fell into the intake ports.

This lead to some creative retrieval methods. Put some mesh over a shopvac and was able to retrieve a few, the rest were retrieved by some grease on the tip of a pick.

So instead of assembly, wasted 2 hours or so swapping injectors i can't use, then tearing the intake off to get injectors parts from the intake tract. I have early truck injectors, these are late truck injectors. Everything i read says they "Should" fit, but i call BS as they will not go in. so back to ordering new injectors again. Going with some 8.1 injectors this go around similar flow rate (34lb at 58psi) to the flex fuel and are 100% the same as the stock injectors size and connector wise.

New injector on the left, stock on the right


Moving backward as it is less assembled now that it was earlier in the week. but i did manage to finish the cooling system, start routing the wire harness, install headers, mount my TAC module, and knock quite a few things off of my to do list.


Tucked the PCM behind the battery in the fender. Nice little hiding spot for it, out of harms way


also got the interior in a more usable shape. Shifter hole covered, stock bench back in and clears the shifter well. If my parts show us tuesday, then i should be in good shape to fire it up.

Made some noise with it last night
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Underpowered wrote:

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPR9vB-y5thKot9GJZyPOFXF751a4Ive-xtuFkV

Tried the link....error message.

Tom

Try this one

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNBYizz-swByqEK-ufpVADZB5s8JvRV_sjEFs-hgEQ5m8VdbTOgRG0UnaksK-z8sw/photo/AF1QipNT5-XWVwPk2Dfv4EtmpSb3PnWSyu-waWfOiDRq?key=QlB0OXl5M2JPblVpWVIwazlFRTlBMVZodk82R2RB

It Moves! and is quite undriveable with the current gears as i feared. Bleeding the clutch was easy, but took quite a lot of pedal pumping to get a pedal even once the system was air free.

Still on the to do list is gears, exhaust, and legality issues (lights, turn signals, tires, horn, ETC) as well as gauges (OBD2 and a tablet for now)

Gears first to to make moving around the farm as i work on it easier.


Painted my Intake tube to mate the block. eventually valve covers, radiator support, and a few other pieces will match as well.


Not quite up to the task of driving just yet. 2.73 rear gears make it a bear to move. that, and it is virtually untuned at this point.


Nice to see the light of day for the first time in a while.

cool

Did some stuff and things today.

Picked up a used 8.5 rear end from a 96 Buick Roadmaster last week. Regeared it with my 4.10's i already had. First time doing gears...here hoping it holds up!.



Installed the new rear end today. Easy swap, took an hour. No pic, as it looks just like the old one.

Then i decided to work on my Exhaust. First steps was i knew my trans crossmember was in the way, It needed some clearance holes.




Then did a bit of piping. Options were limited.







Also had some new meats dropped off for it as well. No budget for wheels right now but tires were needed due to dry rot on the old ones.

Put a few miles on the wagon this week. did a bit of driving around to get a baseline tune on the car. It has a few issues, but nothing that keeps me from driving it (At least short distances)

First issue is the major one. The longer i drive it, the more the brakes drag. Even though i did not change anything on the brake setup, i think i need to adjust my pushrod at the Master cylinder. After driving the car home, about 15 miles into the drive the brakes were dragging to the point the car was undriveable. Stopped, ate dinner, went and got some tools (wife was following me home) popped the bleeded to release the pressure. drove the rest of the way home without issue.

2nd issue is electrical. I have 12v to the factory fuse block in the car, but any draw on it drops Voltage. Brake lights drop voltage enough to cause the radio to cut out. Rear window does the same thing and will only drop in short burst. quick test show any sort of draw on the fuse block drops the voltage down to only about 7 volts.

But it is good enough to get it tagged this week! gonna tackle the brakes tomorrow i hope by adjusting the pushrod between the booster and MC, or if it is non adjustable i will shim the master some.

Then later this week try and track down the electrical issue. possibly just some corrosion on the bulkhead connected through the firewall. If not, i'll just have to run a new, larger wire to the fuse block.


its first foray out into the real world in almost a year


and earning that roadkill sticker working on the brakes in a sub shop parking lot

Appears i Forgot to Update this.

Car was Dyno Tuned on June 7th. Drove it on my buddies base tune 2 hours to the dyno guy, tuned, then 2 hours back. biggest issue was the Brake booster took a dump on on the trip down so it was manual brakes all day.


Not bad, but not what i was hoping for. Dyno was a dyno dynamics, and are known to be some of the most accurate dynos out there, so they are more realistic numbers than i would have gotten from a Dynojet. The real test was how the car performed. Needless to day, i was pretty happy when i went to the drag strip the first time.


Not quite as fast as i was hoping for either, but literally my first time ever drag racing, in a stick none the less. Right lane, car 800



Otherwise, went to the Indy stop of the power tour, Drive is almost every day. Put over 3000 miles on it since getting it tagged in early June. Been to a few local car shows, cruise ins and Cars and coffee events with it. Never a winner and never meant to be, but it generally draws attention everywhere i take it.

Very happy with how the car drives and performs. The drive-ability was the biggest unknown when i bought it, but it drives pretty well in general. getting a bit bored with the power already though, so some minor upgrades may be in store in order to get a bit more out of it. hoping to be able to put in into the 12s eventually.

The new exhaust looks great. Keep up the good work!!

wagon has served as my DD for a while now. Well over 5k put on it last year. Power tour (1 stop), LS fest, local car shows, amongst other stuff.

Will be going back under the knife soon again though.

Going to rebuild the T56, refresh the suspension/steering and replace the wear parts. add A/C to it as well.

If that all goes well, it will be getting lowered just a touch (1" or so"), new wheels, front splitter/valance, Brake ducts. originally intended on going after a pro touring style with the car, but now i think i am gonna go for a late 80's nascar vice with the car.

Hopefully next year will bring Paint and a bit more horsepower. This year is more drive-ability than looks though.



and what started the whole idea for this car....a camping rig
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I like this Beast!

well, had to "self Quarantine" for work last week due to the Covid-19 stuff.    Used the time off to my advantage as best i could.  

new shocks, Springs (to hopefully lower the car about an inch), Control arms, bushings, brakes and wheel bearings to give the suspension a little overhaul.




Ended up not lowing the car at all.  The worn out 40+ year old stock (assuming) stuff sits nearly exactly the same as my lowering springs i installed.   Hub to fender measurements are identical in the rear, and it actually raised the front about 1/2".  

But while i had the time, and the lift was free i tore into the T56 as well.  First trans rebuild for myself.  Went into it pretty blind as far as research went.  No book or manual.  Figured it can't be that complicated




Overall it wasn't too bad.  I screwed up the alignment on the shift forks so i had to tear it back down to address that, but otherwise it went pretty smoothly.  Now all nicely upgraded to handle about 700HP, which it will sadly never see in its current application, but upgraded parts were not much more than stock replacments and might as well overbuild if you can.  

After it was all back together,  went on a nice 320+ backroads cruise to ensure it was all broke in, settled, and works how it should.   Next up is A/C and some wheels (maybe)

Car looks good!

It may not sit lower than before, but I think it looks about perfect with the size of the current wheels and tires.
I bet it rides and handles a bunch better with all the new parts!

Thanks,


It does ride much better now than it ever did before. Handling is a bit better, but i do have a Crown Vic swaybar to add and hoping to add a ws6 sway bar up front to really give the handling a big boost.

You may not need the CV anti roll bar. I believe the frame for the box bodies does not spread like the bubble wagons. That would allow you to use a sedan anti roll bar.